Hi, this is Father Michael Denk from The Prodigal Father. I am really excited about this episode of Praying with Priests. We have Father Tom Cebula here with us. He is the interim chaplain at Walsh University and it has been a pleasure for me to get to know him because I am now a priest in residence at Walsh University. Father Tom, it is so great to have you here with us.
Father Cebula:
Good afternoon. It is so great to be with you, Father Michael.
Father Michael:
I really look forward to this interview, too, because I have already heard about some of your spiritual life just through working with the students and the time we have shared together as brother priests. It has been wonderful for me, as is this opportunity to share some of your prayer life. Lots of times, our listeners are people who are new to prayer and they are just trying to figure out what that even means and how to have a relationship with God. Anything you can share with us would be so helpful.
Father Cebula:
I am looking forward to this opportunity, which is a great addition to our campus. It has been great sharing our spiritual life and prayer walks as brother priests.
Father Michael:
This is the first time we are using the Maximilian Kolbe podcast room here at Walsh University. As we prepare for this, let us begin with a prayer:
In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
While he was still a long way off, the father caught sight of his son and was filled with compassion. He ran to him, embraced him, and kissed him. Father, we ask that you bless our time together now. Bless especially those who will be listening to this podcast. Through it, may they have a glimpse of this life that God so much wants to share with us. This life of prayer, where He becomes real to us and He becomes personal to us as Father, as Son, as Holy Spirit. We ask this all through Christ Our Lord. Amen.
In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Father Cebula, I would like to start off by asking you to just tell me about your childhood. Some of your first memories of learning to pray or experiencing God as far back as you can remember. Tell us about what that was like.
Father Cebula:
I grew up in the pre-Vatican II church so my experiences, my formative years, were covered by those experiences. I must say that I think about a time when I was five years old and I had a lot of problems with hearing and ear aches and wound up in the hospital. When I came back, one memory of prayer was a visit from Father Orlando Rich, the associate at Saint Anthony in Canton. I remember him offering a prayer for me, for my health and recovery. In those days when you had a priest visit, that was something. That was like God visiting you. So there was an experience there of God in my life through that priest, Father Orly Rich, God rest his soul.
Father Michael:
What were you feeling when he came into the room?
Father Cebula:
I felt a sense of comfort, security, and love. He had a beautiful smile. As I look back in terms of the genesis of my vocation, I believe there was a seed planted there in terms of my attraction to the priesthood. In those days it was Fr. Rich, a wonderful assistant priest in our parish. Not only in my initial embryonic experiences of prayer, but also in planting a seed in terms of my vocation.
Father Michael:
That’s beautiful because as priests we are called to be that presence of God, particularly as father to people so one might have that experience as a five year old and not be afraid.
Father Cebula:
I am glad you mentioned “father,” because that is what I experienced. He had a sense of fatherly presence that came across so well, deep into your soul. I remember when he left, people were just sobbing to lose Father Rich because he was our father. He had such a warm heart and compassion for all of us.
Father Michael:
Certainly that is what I treasure about the priesthood. Everything I do with The Prodigal Father is showing people to God the Father’s love. For you to have that experience incarnationally–sacramentally, you are a priest at five years old.
Father Cebula:
That was a significant moment.
Father Michael:
Oftentimes, that is true. It is not until we look back that we really appreciate some of the ways that God works in our lives. If you are listening to this and just wondering how do I pray, some of it could be just looking back at the memories of God working in your life. So, being back at home after that, do you have any early memories of praying, or going to Mass, or your family praying with you or anything?
Father Cebula:
I grew up in the golden years of Catholic education in the late 1940’s and 1950’s. Certainly, at our school, praying led by the good Humility Sisters and Mass was something we did every day. I remember making my First Holy Communion and having a sense of the presence of Jesus. I remember the good sister making an effort at helping us realize that it is Jesus we are receiving. In my childhood imagination, I thought that when I made my First Holy Communion, Jesus would somehow appear and I would see Him. I mean, He is going to be the guest of your soul and that did not happen as I received Our Lord.
But, I do remember having a commitment of Jesus’ coming. He is going to be coming, the guest of your soul, and that did not happen. As I received Our Lord, I remember having a commitment of faith: Lord I do not see you, but I believe you are here, present in me. I think as a seven- year-old in second grade, I was making my first conscious act of faith in Jesus. I must say that it was a struggle because I was disappointed. I felt sad. Where are you, Lord? But, I remember within my heart it felt something like an act of faith.
I have been gifted with the awareness of the real presence of Jesus at Mass from my earliest days. I must say, I never found the Mass boring. In my faith development, maybe it was a special grace that I had that carried me through the years. I must say, I was not a saint. I had a lot of growing up to do. I was a jerk and so forth as an immature child but had the awareness that it was Jesus that I am receiving here. The real body, blood, soul, and divinity of Our Lord. I give that credit to the sisters: Sister Fabian, a beautiful Humility of Mary sister, and the other religious that had such an influence on my development.
Father Michael:
Would they have taught you an act of faith or is that just something you implicitly did?
Father Cebula:
I think it was something I so implicitly did without reflection, and it has been a tremendous grace I had. You hear all these stories about conversions, dramatic conversion experiences. I have not had anything near that in terms of the way my life was and is so different from the way I am now. Mine was more incremental, but it began with an awareness of the presence of the Lord, in the Eucharist, within my soul.
Father Michael:
I want to unpack that just a little bit because I know it is true for me, and I imagine it is true for some of our listeners, that sometimes when we go to pray or even to the Mass or the sacraments, we do not always experience what we were hoping for. That can be devastating as a child, a second grader, too, if you are really expecting to see Jesus’ presence there. Obviously, He is present, just not seen in the way that we think of it. But to go to God and experience disappointment . . .I think about my Confirmation. I really do not remember feeling anything. People asking me how I felt. Did I feel anything? I did not. I am sure I did at some level, but I get comfort from hearing that you were able to make an act of faith as a child. Prayer as a child is so beautiful. Father, I do believe and I make this act of faith that you are present.
Father Cebula:
As you say that, maybe that has helped me in situations where I have not experienced the presence of God as closely in difficult times in my life; and yet, accompanying that with an act of faith that has sustained me through a lot of difficulties and challenges.
Father Michael:
Thank you for sharing that. Tell me a little about your grade school to high school years. Did you pray at home at all?
Father Cebula:
We prayed more formal prayer at home. Grace before meals and those things. I do remember my mother having some sort of a prayer corner where she would get up before the rest of us and be at prayer. That was a strong memory that I have, but in terms of other prayer experiences, we really did not have that much as a kid growing up. Maybe we prayed the rosary occasionally or liturgically prayed together as a family. We went to church as a family and prayed together there more formally, but not too much at home.
Fr. Michael:
I think it is a beautiful witness, though, of your mother having that prayer corner. It is so important that we have a place to go to pray. Obviously , we have the church where we go to pray communally and it is a good place to go by yourself, too, to pray before the Blessed Sacrament if your church has Adoration. You can also pray in a prayer corner or prayer room in your house. It is just a place to go to. Ninety percent of prayer is just being there. If you can get to your prayer corner or prayer room, God will do the rest.
Father Cebula:
I can give you an example of my father, too. He was a man of few words, like Saint Joseph. I remember going past their bedroom, he would be down on his knees praying his night prayer. That spoke a million words to me. When he would pass a crucifix, he would touch the crucifix with his hand and then touch his heart. That kind of witness influenced my prayer life. Those types of memories went deep into my soul.
Father Michael:
How about as you grew older? Take us through the high school years.
Father Cebula:
In those days it was not unusual for a young man to enter the seminary so when I was fourteen, I entered into high school seminary. I was there two and a half years and left, which was a good thing for me in terms of my discernment. I had an ordinary high school experience and then reentered after I graduated from high school.
Father Michael:
I did not know that. Did you learn how to pray when you went into the seminary the first time or more when you got out of it? What was it like?
Father Cebula:
It was so much a part of my formation in terms of our schedule. Upon rising early in the morning, there was time for meditation, and then Mass, and then midday having examination of conscience. In the evening, evening prayer, vespers and then night prayer was an integrated part of my life. Also, going into the chapel in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament for private prayer and adoration was such a normal part of my formation in those early years when I was a teenager.
Father Michael:
That was what seminary?
Father Cebula:
Saint Gregory Seminary in Cincinnati; actually, Mount Washington. It was not unusual that another boy from school entered with me. I think in terms of my maturity, I think the best thing I did was leave and get a better perspective on my discernment and God’s call for me. That call remained during my normal high school experience like dating, going to proms, the track team and having a lot of fun. I was pretty small and I could not make the baseball or football team but I was a good runner.
Father Michael:
Father has a lot of great stories. He really was a normal high school kid, I would say. Maybe in another podcast we can hear about the life of Father Cebula. Great guy. Who were your nuns in grade school?
Father Cebula:
They were the Humility of Mary Sisters from Pennsylvania and then also the Sisters of Saint Joseph from Rocky River, Ohio. In high school, we were taught by the De La Salle Brothers. Central Catholic High School in Canton, Ohio, in those days was co-institutional. The Brothers taught the boys on one side and the Blue Nuns taught the girls on the other side.
Father Michael:
So, you were just living and breathing the faith.
Father Cebula:
I was. I do not want to canonize myself because I did a lot of things I am not too proud of, and I thank God for His mercy. I must say, these brothers had a strong influence on me in terms of their masculinity, their deep faith and convictions. I remember especially Brother Declan Joseph who had a lot of influence on me as I went to him for some spiritual direction and oversight. He had a lot of good insight and in terms of his presence to me, it was a fatherly presence. I saw within him a gentle heart, but a real man. He had a real influence on my own masculine development. What it means to be a man and a man of faith. You can be both. It is not exclusive. So, they had a great influence on me. Father Fannon, who was the Chaplain at Central Catholic, also was another great influence in terms of encouraging me. It is just hard to believe now that he gave me Tanqueray’s book The Spiritual Life. This is not for bedtime reading. That had an influence on me in initiating me into the three ways in terms of spiritual growth.
Father Michael:
The Purgative, Illuminative and Unitive
Father Cebula:
I did not fully understand it, but I read most of it as a high school student. He gave me this as a resource, but I must say it was very difficult. It introduced me to a deeper spiritual awareness, phases and understanding of what this is in terms of the three ways and how they interact, connect and flow in and out.
Father Michael:
Listeners, if you are interested in knowing more, I will put a link in there of The Three Ways as well as the book that Father Cebula is talking about.*
Father Cebula:
Tanqueray was a big popular work. It is a huge volume, about 800 pages, but it was very popular in those days. Father Adolphe Tanqueray. That was a popular book for many of the seminarians, people that were looking for spiritual growth and searching.
Father Michael:
Take us through that transition. Did you go to seminary at college and how did God communicate or invite you again?
Father Cebula:
I reentered after high school. I was searching throughout my senior year in high school. I had some contacts with Father Fannon in terms of my personal counseling and personal issues that I was dealing with, not necessarily associated with the priesthood. I remember hearing over the PA system that if there are any boys interested in pursuing the priesthood or who would like to discuss it more, Father Fannon would be available at such and such a time after school. I responded to that invitation.
Father Michael:
So, you got a call literally over the PA system.
Father Cebula:
Yes. I wonder, what if I did not hear that call? Because I was searching. I did not know what my life would be. I distinctly remember hearing over the PA system this invitation: Hear, Lord. Speak, Lord.
Father Michael:
That is wonderful. Then the priest walks with you in your discernment.
Father Cebula:
That was so helpful. Again, that fatherly presence. In fact, Monsignor, or Father Fannon in those days, had his own apartment in the school itself. You would walk past his apartment every day and it was mostly open. I was tremendously blessed by how God was involved in my life and did not appreciate it. Sometimes I wonder, do I still really appreciate it enough and how blessed I have been through my years here in this world of ours.
Father Michael:
If you are listening to this podcast now and you have ever thought about priesthood, maybe right now this is God speaking to you. Find a priest. Find a priest that you trust. Father Cebula and I are here at Walsh, but wherever you are in the world, find a priest to help guide you through that and walk you through it. It is a wonderful opportunity for us priests. We love the opportunity to help give back the gift that we have been given in the priesthood.
Father Cebula:
In fact in coming to Walsh, one of the incentives that I had in coming here was my experience with the brothers because it was so good and positive. To then have the opportunity to pay back in some way. I know it is a different congregation of brothers than the ones that taught me, but it is that sense that I could in some way give back as a priest.
Father Michael:
Talk about going back to the seminary. You are a little bit more mature maybe. What was like? How did your prayer life develop while you were in major seminary?
Father Cebula:
The one impact of that was the retreat which was a regular part of our formation; and, also, the silence. There was pretty strict silence. I do not think we even spoke at meals in those days. The priest that would come to direct the retreat was a strong influence on my spiritual development. The quiet, the silence and contemplation. I think I started to become more appreciative through the silence. Thomas Merton was a tremendous influence on me. Also, one Sunday a month was a Day of Recollection and silence where we were kind of on our own to pay specific attention in regard to our spiritual life, private prayer and some spiritual reading as well. Those exercises or activities that we had. Silence was a great influence on me.
Father Michael:
It is so important for all of us that we spend some time in silence. A big reason that I do the work I do with The Prodigal Father is that I feel so blessed as a priest that we had this ability to have this kind of formation. That we got to do retreats every year, and have spiritual directors, and learn how to pray, and how to be in silence. Not everybody has those experiences. The tools that I am hoping to share are for all of you and are an opportunity to grow and have a wonderful life of prayer.
How did your prayer life develop as you became ordained?
Father Cebula:
At the time of my ordination, I recall back then dealing with some difficult situations. My mother died before I was ordained. She suffered from cancer. I remember going through some crisis of faith because she really suffered and I was so disappointed that she could not be there for my first Mass and all that celebration. I think there was sort of a testing, refinement, going on. Talk about probation. Just as I reflect right now, I had to make an act of faith in Jesus as a seven-year-old. I had to continue to make a conscious act of faith in the Father, asking for some healing. I felt sorry for myself because I lost my mother. We looked forward to planning my ordination and first Mass, which never happened. I remember feeling somewhat resentful, especially jealous as well, of those that had their families with them. So, my faith was tested and the example of my mother and the faith that she had, the courage that she had, has remained with me for the rest of my life.
I have been dealing with certain challenges that I have had. I do not know if I would have been able to meet them as well, but my faith was tested, purified and made stronger through those initial experiences of my ordination. I had a very difficult first assignment. The pastor had difficulties of his own with Vatican II and was very negative. There was a negative environment in the rectory itself. That taught me the sense of persevering, of praying for the grace to get through this and the courage to then ask Bishop Malone for a change in assignment because I cannot endure this any longer and feel somewhat like a failure. Your first assignment is supposed to be like your honeymoon and I thought, “Gosh, how am I going to get through this?” Prayer got me through it, plus perseverance and endurance. Two long years seemed like two hundred years. So, I appealed to the bishop for a change in assignment and I was transferred to another parish, Saint Mary in Massillon, where there was a totally different atmosphere in the rectory. An older priest, Father Lobby, God rest his soul, and a wonderful community of other priests were there. We had four priests in the rectory and it was a very nurturing, good, happy and bright climate. This gave me some reprieve in seeing a future in the priesthood, regenerated me and renewed my vocation. Another impact was my experience with Cursillo.**
Father Michael:
What is Cursillo?
Father Cebula:
Cursillo is a weekend experience called A Little School in Christianity where people come together in a strong community experience. One of the unique things about it was that the talks that were given were not just abstract. Talking about the spiritual life. Talking about the three ways. This was something new back then. There was actually witnessing, that personal witness to the content. What they were saying had a tremendous influence on me, as did the experience of the Lord in community. I had never experienced this before within the Christian community itself. The songs, the sense of a strong community, sharing meals together and fellowship. That was a unique experience that I never had before.
Also, the relationship that I had with lay people where I felt affirmed as a priest. Feeling one in there and having something to offer in terms of my understanding of the spiritual life, but tempered by all these personal witnesses. That helped me become more integrated in my own spirituality rather than simply emotional thinking about how are these realities affecting me in terms of the actual witnessing, experiencing them in my real life. It gave me a lot of food for thought.
I stayed involved in Cursillo for many years and it was a real help to my spiritual maturity. Moving from the head down into the heart and integrating what I am saying, not just giving a nice talk about nice ideas. The experience of Cursillo taught me the importance of witnessing and asking questions (how does this affect my real life?) which I had not done before. Most of my formation in the seminary would have been more intellectual. We did not have much witnessing. This was private, you never did that. This kind of stretched me. It was a turning point in my priesthood.
I see the Father in Father Lobby. He had a fatherly presence. He had his own difficulties with the Vatican Council but he accepted them and there was such a bright, sunny disposition about him that I saw within him a future in the priesthood. Could I be like him forty years from now with that grit in his eye, the smile and laughter? God was revealing His face to me through this older priest. Even to this day, when I go past St. Mary’s, I think of him and my experience there. That was 1970 and by the grace of God, here I am all these years later. My experience there changed my life. I do not know if I would have been here if I had not made it through those two years after ordination and had the courage to ask for a change of assignment. Experiencing those years when I was at St. Mary’s really changed my life.
Father Michael:
Tell us about that. How did it change your life?
Father Cebula:
I think because I had come from two years where everything was negative and here at St. Mary’s we shared meals together. We laughed together. Father Lobby taught me not to take life too seriously. He joked–good laughter and a good sense of community among us priests there. It was a very active parish. I saw him being a father. He was made a monsignor but he never used the word monsignor. He liked to be called father. He was Father Lobby and grated against Monsignor Lobby. He had such a wonderful fatherly presence. That helped change me, as did the Cursillo involvement with a lot of good lay people. . . I think the experience of Jesus in community. I had a great awareness sacramentally as far as Holy Communion and adoration but being open to the presence of Christ within a community, Cursillo and otherwise, opened to me this new vista of experiencing Christ in one another.
Father Michael:
That is so important for us as priests. I myself have just been blessed to know and be loved by the people of God. There is a reciprocity there. You love them and give yourself to them as father but also find that love and support. Actually, oftentimes we are edified by them, by their prayer life and their faithfulness through difficult times.
Father Cebula:
That is how Cursillo had an impact on me, where men and women shared their stories.
Father Michael:
If you have never made a retreat before, or Cursillo, or Christ Renews His Parish, or SEARCH, or ATTACK, I invite you. They are wonderful ways to experience love through the Body of Christ, through the church as Father Cebula was explaining.
Father Cebula:
As an example regarding the experience of Cursillo, I wore the Cursillo cross that we were given. I wore it continuously from 1972 to this year, and then I lost it. I lost this crucifix.
Father Michael:
Saint Anthony, help us.
Father Cebula:
I looked everywhere and begrudgingly, I ordered another one.
Father Michael:
So, you have worn that the whole time? That is amazing.
Father Cebula:
Yes, I wore it since 1972 because of the impact Cursillo had on me. Thank God, it reminds me every day of the grace of God.
Father Michael:
In the spiritual life, we talk a little bit about via negativa and via positiva. Sometimes God works through the negative. Even through the difficulties of your first assignment, you mentioned it might have caused you to just persevere.
Father Cebula:
I do not think I would have had the strength to endure whatever else I had to endure if I had not been formed via negativa through my very difficult experience. That really strengthened me. I did not know it at the time that this was awful, but I can say for sure I was a stronger man through that adversity. I think if I had had a honeymoon experience early on, I do not think I would have been as strong to endure what I had to face.
Father Michael:
I think that is true of all of us in life whether you are a student going through a difficult time, or maybe you just got married and it is not the honeymoon that you had hoped for. That does not mean that there will not be good down the line. For all of us, sometimes, we just have to go through those via negativa experiences and there will be the positiva. There will be the positive life-giving graces.
Father Cebula:
Fr. Cebula: We talked about discerning spirits with these young men discerning priesthood. Desolation and consolation. I did not know it at the time, but in your desolation, do not give up your spiritual practices–even though I was tempted to in this desert. I did persevere in prayer, celebrating the sacraments, trying to be faithful to my commitment to priesthood and relationships.
Father Michael:
One of Saint Ignatius’ rules is when we are experiencing desolation not only do not give up, but almost recommit yourself or maybe even do a little bit more. So, if you are making a holy hour and you are tempted to get out of it early, make a holy hour and a minute. After that, what was it now like to transition into retirement in terms of your prayer life?
Father Cebula:
As I reflect back on that, my assignments throughout the years of my priesthood were easy in the sense of discerning God’s call or will for me because they were in response to the bishop and the diocese. I see the will of God in the bishop (in terms of, “Father, we’d like you to take this assignment”) in all those changes that took place. However, as I approached retirement, that was not true. I felt that I had been at this parish, Saint Barbara in Massillon, for twenty years, had reached the age of 71 and felt that I had done all that I could; becoming somewhat burned out, I guess, after a lot of major building projects and fund raising. I felt that it was time to move on, but it was so difficult in terms of is this what God wants?
I had to go through a lot of soul searching at the age of 71. I guess I was anticipating becoming a senior associate in a parish setting. For different reasons, that did not work out. Then, this opportunity opened up here at Walsh University to help serve as an interim or helper to the chaplain. I accepted it and my first months here felt like I was in some sort of a limbo or twilight zone in the sense of Oh my God, what have I done? It is not like, Tom, you are going back. You are on vacation. There is no turning back. That realization started to sink in. The first few months here, there was not much going on at Walsh University. What did I get myself into? I felt like a bouncing ball, losing my identity in the sense of my life at Saint Barbara. So, there was a whole crisis of identity and did I make the right decision? What am I to do here, especially the first few months?
In terms of accepting God’s call, through a lot of ambiguity, I think I came to realize more what faith is in terms of Abraham. Going and not knowing, but trusting. The impact that it had on me was a greater trust in the Father. I do not know how this is going to work out. I have never been on a college campus in my life. There is a lot of fear and anxiety but, Father, I trust in you. I started to pray more deeply–Charles De Foucauld’s prayer of complete surrender to the Father. The impact and challenge here in my retirement is working through the ambiguity and realizing truly what faith is in terms of what I was experiencing through the ambiguity of my own life, yet trusting as Abraham did in God. Gradually this evolved and I got through this, feeling more comfortable and seeing a more defined role that I have here. It helped me to realize what faith is in my own personal experience. I know when I reflected on my First Holy Communion, it was more that I believe that Jesus is present here. But, in these later years, it is affecting me more personally in terms of my life and future. I came to realize we walk by faith. Father, I trust in you. He has provided a path for me.
Father Michael:
This growing in prayer life never stops, right?
Father Cebula:
No, it does not.
Father Michael:
What advice would you give to our listeners as we come to the conclusion of our time together? Say that they are going through a difficult time, or want to grow in prayer, or they are just struggling. What advice would you give them?
Father Cebula:
Try to avail themselves of a competent director or a person that is wiser in spiritual life because that has been my experience in being guided through these difficulties. The importance of faith and not giving in to your feelings of abandonment (personally, I say, “Father I trust in you”) and God will lead you through that darkness. I know it is not always possible, but consult someone that knows what they are saying, who is confident and wise. An older person that has been through these experiences. Some sort of a guide or a mentor is so important.
Father Michael:
Saint Teresa of Avila would say to seek, and she terms it that, a wise spiritual guide. It does not necessarily have to be a priest or a spiritual director but someone that is wise in the spiritual life.
Father Cebula:
I have had some wonderful priests in my life – and brothers – in addition to my parents and the importance of faith. We walk in faith, side by side, persevering in prayer.
Father Michael:
What I would like to do is have you close with a prayer. If you would like, I have the Charles de Foucauld prayer. Maybe you can say this prayer and give us your blessing.
Father Cebula:
In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Amen.
Father,
I abandon myself into your hands; do with me
what you will.
Whatever you may do, I thank you:
I am ready for all, I accept all.
Let only your will be done in me,
and in all your creatures.
I wish no more than this, O Lord.
Into your hands I commend my soul:
I offer it to you
with all the love of my heart,
for I love you, Lord,
and so need to give myself,
to surrender myself into your hands,
without reserve,
and with boundless confidence
for you are my Father.
Father, we come before you in Jesus’ name. We call you Abba, Father, in the spirit of Jesus. Continue to bless Father Mike and all those involved in this wonderful podcast ministry that he has and fill us, Father, with your love, grace, and peace. In Jesus’ name we pray, Amen.
In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Father Michael:
Thank you for being with us, Father Cebula. It has been a wonderful pleasure being here with you.
Father Cebula:
It has been wonderful for me, too, to do this reflection. Thank you for providing this opportunity.
Father Michael:
God bless all our listeners, too.
* The Spiritual Life: a Treatise on Ascetical and Mystical Theology by Adolphe Tanqueray, found at https://amzn.to/2DdFRku
Father Michael also suggests The Three Conversions in the Spiritual Life by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, found at https://amzn.to/2IjN4DE
