Fr. Michael: Hi, my name is Father Michael Denk, the pastor here at St. Matthias the Apostle Catholic Church in Parma, Ohio. I’m very delighted to have with me Father Bob Kraig, who is Pastor Emeritus. That’s a very important role of St. John Neumann in Strongsville. Father Bob, thank you so much for joining us today.
Fr. Bob: Well, it’s great to be here, Mike. That title, Pastor Emeritus, and about $3.50 will buy you a cup of coffee. That’s what it gets. That’s how important it is.
Fr. Michael: What does Pastor Emeritus mean?
Fr. Bob: That’s a good question.
Fr. Michael: I didn’t take Latin, so I’m trying to think of what emeritus is.
Fr. Bob: Means pastor emergency.
Fr. Michael: My brother-in-law and sister, John and Julie Berdorf, were parishioners there and that’s when I first got to know you. As the years have passed, I’ve gotten to know you more so, it’s been really good.
Fr. Bob: They’re wonderful people, Julie, but I won’t tell John that so make sure you edit this out.
Fr. Michael: We talked about you beforehand.
Fr. Bob: I have my good points.
Fr. Michael: What is it like being a retired priest?
Fr. Bob: I think it’s an opportunity for a lot of growth and the best part about it is when I help out at a parish, when someone comes up to me after Mass and says, “Father, it’s too cold or too hot.” I just say, “See that priest there, Father Mike Denk? He’s a pastor.” Go see him or whoever the pastor is and it’s just good.
One of the things we used to hear and I’m sure you did too from Bishop Pilla, he always and sometimes we would bust him about it, he’d always say the good people of the Diocese. You’re good people and I think as you go around and help at different places you see the wisdom of what he said. There are so many wonderful faith-filled people that I have encountered in retirement that I would not have met if I wasn’t retired. Their faith journeys as they share them and you get to know them. That’s one of the great things and you can really help with a lot of various different things in the Diocese. Up until last year, I still gave retreats out at the Notre Dame mother house in the summer and one of the best things above all is that you can say no if you don’t want to do something. but you really try to help out as much as you can.
I would say the greatest blessing I’ve had in retirement is my relationship with my sister. I always introduce her as my older sister, and she gets upset at that, but we had a good relationship growing up. Normal civil rivalries, you know, and I did the dishes last night, you got to do them tonight and that kind of stuff. We always got along, but since retirement, which will be eight years on May 1st, she and I have become very close friends and that’s been the greatest blessing. We joke around saying we both want to die before the other person does so we don’t have to clean up the other person’s stuff. But I’ll tell you, Mike, the real reason I would prefer to go before her is that I can’t imagine living life without her. That’s what I would say is the greatest blessing of retirement.
Fr. Michael: That’s beautiful.
Fr. Bob: I said that when I retired, I wanted to do three things, and I’ve been able to do two of the three. Number one, you’re going to laugh at this, is to regain my accordion skills, which were good. I played in Polish Poker Bands growing up, but some surgery on fingers and hands has prevented that.
The other two I’ve been able to do. Another one you’ll laugh at, I wanted to learn the Polish language, and I’ve been able to, as a good friend of mine and I, Tom and I, say we speak hillbilly Polish. That’s been good because I wanted to know what was going on in these Polish polkas that we used to play.
The third thing is, as you’re aware, I wanted to do some work on drug and alcohol abuse. Talk about blessings, working with those men and occasionally some women at the Edna House. The men were at the Jack Mulhouse Center by St. Patrick’s Parish on the West Park. That’s been a blessing to work with those guys. I’ve gotten so much out of it and learned so much from them.
Fr. Michael: A couple of years ago, somebody gave me your Stations of the Cross book, “The Way of the Cross for those in Recovery”. I did that for one of my Friday night stations, and it’s beautiful all from that perspective. What I often tell people is to realize that everybody knows somebody that is going through some kind of addiction and brokenness and you know stuff like that. What got you into that ministry?
Fr. Bob: What got me into it? My second-year Theology at St. Mary’s, sounds like when Moses crossed the Red Sea, 1970 was my second year in Theology. We had a pastoral assignment or someplace we went once a week. I had the assignment of going to St. Pius in Bedford, which is now closed, teaching PSR. One night after the PSR classes, a gentleman came up to me, I couldn’t remember his name and I’m sure he’s passed away since 55 years ago, but he said, “Bob, I’m a member of AA.” He said, “I’m going to a meeting on a certain night, whenever, would you like to come?” He said, “It might help your ministry in the future”. I said, “Sure.” I was so taken back by the friendliness of these men, the authenticity of them, their hospitality, and the way they would do things. “ Hi, I’m Tom and I’m an alcoholic. Welcome. Hi, I’m Jim and I’m an alcoholic. Welcome.”
Then, when I heard the lead story that night, that just blew me away. I remember driving back and just pondering how real they were. I did a little bit of reading on it. I went to a workshop at Rutgers I think the summer before I was ordained if I remember right and dabbled in it. When it came time to retire, that’s the third thing.
You talk about the way God works. When I announced in November of 2017, I’d be retiring the following May 1st at all the Masses, the next day, someone heard one of those three things, that I wanted to work with drug and alcohol. They were doing this work at the Jack Mulhouse Center on West Park there by St. Patrick’s and they said that he would love to have me come down and talk about ministering there when they open in September that year.
That’s how it all began and then did some things at the Edna House for women at St. Boniface and I’ve stayed with it doing mostly today fifth step. I’m really blessed that at St. John Neumann, where I was pastor for 28 years, the Pastor there now Father Barry Garing allows me an office to meet with the men or whoever. I’m really thankful to him and I can’t thank him enough. Yeah.
Fr. Michael: For people that don’t know, the fifth step is, After the fearless and moral inventory, then you speak it out loud to a trusted confidant. Obviously for us as Catholics, there’s no better sacrament than Confession for that and that is such an amazing privilege to listen to somebody’s whole life, their story.
Sometimes when you hear people’s story, you wonder how they turned out so well, you know, considering the things that they’ve been through. That’s something that I have I really have great esteem for is the openness, the honesty both in sessions but also the vulnerability of people that’s part of their recovery is needing to be honest and open and vulnerable. So, it is pretty sacred.
When you wrote the Stations of the Cross booklet, was it the encouragement from what I remember of somebody else?
Fr. Bob: Right. A woman was actually very encouraging to me to get involved. It was the first week in Lent, we went out for breakfast one morning and she said, “You should write something for AA drug addiction.” She said, “You should do it this Lent.” And I said, “It’s the Second week of Lent, what am I going to do?” She said, “You can do it.” So, she prodded me.
I remember that night I went home and I started to just type, and I emailed her and got input and kept typing and typing. Then, one of the nuns at the Notre Dame Mother House who had done some writing asked me to or told me I you should publish it. I said, “I didn’t write it to publish.” Well, she encouraged me and it got rejected. Then I was giving this retreat to some Notre Dame nuns in Kentucky, and I got a call from Pastoral Center in California, and they said they wanted to publish it and I guess they’re still selling it. I don’t know.
Fr. Michael: We’ll put the link in the description and how you can get that book. What were some of your favorite stations or insights from that?
Fr. Bob: I just tried to write what I noticed about the addicts in my conversations with them because in the beginning I would go down there twice a week and the one time was always in the afternoon if they wanted to talk, share their stories, and just so many of them would beat themselves up. Especially if their wives remarried and changed their names and their children’s last names. That was very hard for them. Then it appeared to me that they were looking for someone to find love, that they were accepted as they are. We would get into God’s love for them, and I would try to get across to them, which is what I try to get to answer your question in the stations, that they’re very special to God. Some of them never realize that.
Do you ever realize that there are billions of possibilities in an act of love or in the creation of a child because we know today many are not born out of love? I’d say, think about that, billions of possibilities and out of those billions, you came about. I remember asking my dad how he met my mom and he said, I think I shared this with you once at lunch. He said, “We were going bowling one night, him and his friends, and then one of the guys said, ‘Hey, there’s a dance tonight at the Aragon Ballroom. Why don’t we go there?’” They went to the dance, and he met my mom. I’ve often thought, “What if they went bowling?” I wouldn’t be here. Now, probably some people wish my dad would have gone bowling some night. Then you think what if his parents don’t meet, who came from Poland, and then if my mom’s parents don’t meet, that’s not a coincidence.
I’m sure you’ve heard, Mike, one of the things a lot of us have heard as priest is there’s no coincidences in life, it’s God working in a very anonymous way. Out of billions of possibilities, you and I not meeting, the addict, all of us really with all of our faults and failings and weaknesses and sinfulness, God wanted us here, right?
Fr. Michael: Yes, the sheer odds of that being brought into life are unbelievable and miraculous.
Fr. Bob: I try to bring that out that they’re important. I haven’t looked at it in a while, so I don’t know if I can answer any more on that.
Fr. Michael: I like talking about prayer with priests, too, because I think it’s good for the average person to hear our joys and struggles of prayer and how we’ve come to know God throughout our life. I like to think about what was your first memory of praying when you were growing up?
Fr. Bob: My first memory was of my parents. I assume we learned them in school and we had to bring them home and or brush them up at home. My dad went over prayer with me, making sure I knew them, and then my mom praying with me every night before bed as a child. That would be I think my first memory of prayer. Our family going to Mass on Sundays, parking in the same place, sitting in the same pew and how important it was to my mom and dad.
A lot of memories that bring that out to me. I remember the one Christmas Eve mass, we went to midnight and my dad driving home and just totally upset that they didn’t sing Silent Night. How could you celebrate Christmas without Silent Night? But that says something. I think, Mike, prayer evolves in our life at every stage of life but there’s got to be a foundation and I’m grateful that I had that with my parents.
I think the other thing, I was thinking about this last night, that my own belief is incarnational, how important the Incarnation is, that God became one of us and entering into our existence. We don’t have to do it right; we can be messy; I think we’re a messy church. Messy priests, messy people, messy congregation. But one thing that stands out, you didn’t experience this because you weren’t alive in the late 50s or 60s, but when the Mass was in Latin, there was a second Gospel at the end called the Second Gospel, I guess.
Fr. Michael: At the end of Mass?
Fr. Bob: Yes. You moved the book from the one side of the altar to the other and the priest would go over and say it, especially at major feasts if I remember, it was John 1:1-14 and at the phrase and he would say it in Latin and I’m probably butchering this, Verbum caro factum est – The Word Became Flesh, you would genuflect. I don’t know why that just stuck with me through the years, The Word Became Flesh and that God came into our mess. I didn’t think this as a second or third grader, but God became one of us into our messiness.
This past Sunday, I had Mass at a church and what a great example this lady gave. She did the First Reading, sat down for the Responsorial Psalm, came up to do the Second Reading, and she realized that she left her glasses in the pew. So, she’s got to go back, get her glasses, come back and of course, people snickered a little bit. She was smiling, kind of embarrassed. At the end of Mass, I just said, “I want to thank you for the great witness you gave today by leaving your glasses in the pew and you had to go back.” I said, “I love it when things like that happen because it shows the messiness of all of us.” There’s never a perfect Liturgy. I said that there are imperfect celebrants, or imperfect congregations, imperfect musicians, imperfect lectors, and yet God became one of us and worked through all of that. Yeah. I think she felt a lot better.
Fr. Michael: Father Woost, now Bishop Woost, that was one of his lines in Liturgy class. Liturgy is messy.
Fr. Bob: Really?
Fr. Michael: Yes, Liturgy is messy. He said that often. I think that was the concept of Incarnation, that we are human beings trying to enter into and express divine, and like our lives, it’s often messy.
Fr. Bob: All our brokenness. Just as we were talking about the addict’s messiness, the value of a community prayer, when you think about it, is you and I and all of us priests with our messiness, God’s chosen us. And doesn’t that blow your mind?
Fr. Michael: Repeatedly.
Fr. Bob: I mean, with all my sins and messiness and yours, God says, “I can use you.” The Word Became Flesh. That’s the Gospel at my funeral Liturgy. John 1:1-14.
Fr. Michael: That’s awesome. I think that’s a neat thing to plan your funeral Liturgy. What is the scripture that you would like to leave people with?
So, you talked about evolutions of prayer. You’re a child. Your parents are laying a foundation for you of prayer. How did that begin to evolve from there? As you look at grade school, high school, did you go to seminary high school or college?
Fr. Bob: No. I went to Holy Name High School and graduated at the Paschal Meal in 1963, you do the math. When you’re growing up, I don’t know if you’re aware, at least I wasn’t, of the evolutions of life. Like Mark Twain said, “I didn’t realize how smart my dad was until I turned 21.” It’s all about us. It was for me. Graduating and seminary prayer was very ritualistic. We go through transitions in our life and all those transitions I believe call us into a deeper relationship with God even though we don’t know it if we’re open.
We were ordained right after Vatican II transition in 1972. As I talked to some of my classmates and other guys in that era, we had all the answers. I will never forget my first experience as a priest that prayer isn’t just saying words but opening yourself up to the prayer of the people and learning from that.
I received a call in the afternoon one day to go anoint a lady in her 90s. I walked down to the house at Holy Redeemer in Collinwood. I don’t know how familiar you are with that but it’s just a neighborhood, you walk everywhere. The family greeted me, took me upstairs to her room, and the lady was pretty comatose. I can’t remember her name, Mike, but it was an Italian name, and I said, “Jesus Communion,” and as out of it as she was, she lifted her head up and stuck out her tongue. I walked back to the parish that day and I said, “She knows nothing of your Vatican II Theology, but she knows Jesus.” Now, did that get me to change my prayer? I think so but you don’t consciously think of that. You see all the experiences of these people in their messiness; they believe in the Lord and inspire us.
I remember at St. John Neumann, a family lost two teenage sons about 18 to 24 months apart and they would come every Sunday to the Eucharist. That’s inspiring to me. Having every right to be angry with God, they still believe in the Eucharist. All of that starts to say is Theology that’s important or growing together with people in the Lord in our messiness, our brokenness and growing together.
I remember the week before Thanksgiving 1992, at St. John Neumann, my second year there as pastor, a 5-year-old boy died in a car accident as his mother was driving him home from his grandmother. She was a nurse at the hospital, picked him up driving down I-71 at around midnight and the driver who was drinking and a 5-year-old boy died. That was a Thursday before Thanksgiving. We buried him like yesterday, the Tuesday before Thanksgiving that year. Thursday morning, the Thanksgiving Liturgy, which I love, that was a great Liturgy, I come in during the opening procession, venerate the altar, turn around, look up, and there’s the parents walking in. I remember saying to myself, “What do you have to be thankful for today?” But somehow, they were telling me and teaching me the power of the Eucharist, the power of the community of prayer. That in their brokenness of their loss of their son, they believe in something much stronger, their faith.
I think experiences like that which you have as a priest, I have had and hopefully continue to have because that keeps me a priest. All of us as priests are blessed to have that in our lives. I think experiences really touch us to see the goodness of God in our messiness and keep us going. I don’t know if that answers your question.
Fr. Michael: I have a couple thoughts about that. A couple of parallels.
First the foundational prayers that you were talking about in your childhood. We all have, priests especially, experienced many times where you go to anoint someone or give them Last Rites and they are almost comatose or not even making any signs of communication or presence. Then you say you say the Sign of the Cross or say the Our Father, and you notice their lips start moving, or they start making the gesture with their hands. It’s amazing to see that at the core of somebody, when everything else might be lost, it’s in the depth of our being.
The other thing that I found fascinating is, and I’ve heard this from other priests too, oftentimes the lay people teach us how to pray. I think what you’re revealing that Mass is the Eucharist is the source and summit of our spiritual life that you have experienced prayer of the people in that way. I think the insight for me is that other parishioners, I don’t want to say can take advantage of that, but if we open our eyes to the lives of others and how they’re encountering the Eucharist and receiving the Eucharist, we can be drawn into that wonderful prayer that they’re experiencing.
Fr. Bob: Your two examples that the sacrament of the sick that has always inspired me. They’re comatose. Eyes. And you say the Our Father in the ritual and you’re right, their lips move. That just impresses me. Then when you bless them at the end, their hand might be on their chest, but they just start to move their hand a little bit. The other thing with that is, and I bet many people parishioners have experienced this, that when they visit their loved ones as they’re nearing death, they’re often seeing Jesus, the person passing over, and who are we to say they are not seeing Jesus or members of their family that preceded them in death.
I think they give the greatest homily on earth because they’re saying this world has nothing to offer me, but God does, eternal life. It’s a wonderful thing to be able to be with people at that time.
Fr. Michael: I always tell people it’s such a sacred time and the veil is so thin between heaven and earth, that you’re almost a midwife, you’re carrying them into being born into eternal life. So many people experience seeing the Lord, seeing their loved ones at that moment. I do tell families enjoy is probably the wrong word, but take this in, it’s a sacred time.
Fr. Bob: You know what inspires me, Mike, at that time? I tell this to the people, the family or whoever, they being there really representing the community are giving the person who’s about to become deceased the greatest gift they can give another person. They help them pass over knowing they’re loved. It’s true, what are we now? Next month we’re all getting gifts. The greatest gift we give is to help a person pass over knowing they’re loved. That’s a great gift.
Fr. Michael: And that could be a great time to express that. A lot of a lot of times for some reason parents and children maybe didn’t grow up with that saying I love you, but you find that comes out during those times of death of struggle.
You mentioned leading retreats for nuns. How do you teach a nun how to pray?
Fr. Bob: I always start with the basic principle and I’m not sure you teach people how to pray unless we’re open to God, unless we desire to see God in our life, because I think we all know prayers are more than words. It’s seeing how God is acting in my life. Not that He can’t act through words or formal prayer or anything. I think the most important principle of prayer and it’s not what I’ve said, other people have said it, just show up. Just show up every day.
We’ve talked about different types of prayer, share our prayer experiences. I believe this sounds strange, it kind of ties into what you were asking before and you’ve had this as a priest, Fr. Mike, when people say, “I just don’t seem to be praying like I used to; it’s dry; I’m getting nothing out of it.” My response to them is, that’s wonderful. They’re kind of taken back by that but I said,” God is revealing Himself to you in a different way.”
Remember we were saying at every stage of our life God wants to show us more gifts and talents that we have at every stage, and if we don’t accept that we become very bitter and angry people. We try to hold on to something that isn’t there anymore. It’s so important for me to say, what is God revealing to me at this stage of my life? My kid went away to college, what does it mean for me and my wife now to communicate with each other instead of through the kids? I’m retired. How many people you’ve run into, they say, “I wish my wife or my husband was still working.”
Fr. Michael: Life drastically changes.
Fr. Bob: You and I when we changed assignment; you and I when we became Pastors, there was a whole new way of prayer for me. As our prayer evolved and we realized we didn’t know everything. That Vatican II Theology is not necessarily going to save people, but the Eucharist will and a praying community. What was your question?
Fr. Michael: Just the evolution of prayer. You mentioned how did your prayer change as a Pastor? What was that evolution? You said your prayer changed when you became a Pastor.
Fr. Bob: It became more thankful and gratitude. What do I mean by that is we always say it. We’ll say it tomorrow, Thanksgiving, thank you and we’re grateful but to really understand our blessings are given to be shared and how blessed we are.
My prayer in going back to your question, that was your question on the nuns. I believe we need to do nothing in prayer. That’s my own personal belief. I don’t think everybody agrees with that and that’s great because your prayer is different than mine and mine is different than yours. As a marriage is different from your neighbors. St. Teresa of Avila said, “The minute you compare yourself to another person’s prayer, you’re dead spiritually.”
I think we try to say too much in prayer. If we’re doing all the talking, how is God revealing Himself to me in this transition of life? What gifts and talents does He want me to develop? And how can I if I don’t listen to him? I love to, in prayer, sit at least a half hour and do nothing with God. I’ve shared this with people. I say maybe try five or ten minutes a day. But I get distracted, Father. I tell them, I’ve never prayed in my life without being distracted. I think it’s impossible. It just is with all the thoughts going through our mind. I think I read once there’s 10,000 thoughts that go through our mind in a day. I don’t know how true that is but come back to just being with God and say those words: thank you. Because the more we realized how blessed we are and live a life of gratitude, we want to share God’s blessings. That becomes the important thing in our life, especially our elderly life. Things like gossiping and judging others, drama, are not important. Why do you want to be a part of that? I think we’re called to share God’s blessings. And it all starts with the Incarnation with God becoming one of us. I think my prayer has become gratitude.
Here’s an interesting thing. What do we always say? I bet you’ve had it said to you already 10, 20 times today. Have a good day, Father. Have a good Thanksgiving. Well, what makes a day good? That you won $500 in the lottery, that you had a good meal. Why don’t we say have a blessed day? Every day is blessed by God, and I really mean that. I think we realize that as we look back on our lives that we didn’t have time to go through all our lives, but to take that time and to be quiet with the Lord. I’ll go so far as to say I guarantee that God’s presence becomes more known to us when we do that.
It’s like a heel on a shoe. You buy a pair of shoes, you walk in them for eight or nine months, and suddenly you look at them, and you say, “Wow, that heel is worn down.” If we open ourselves daily to quiet, I guarantee our lives become more grateful.
Fr. Michael: You just answered a number of questions I was going to ask which generally the lay people ask. Father, what do I do when I get distracted in prayer? How do I pray? One of my favorite definitions of prayer that you illustrated is ‘prayer is wasting time with God’. Just simply being in His presence. People I would say as you did, start off small, five minutes, but as you as you grow, you’ll come to like that time in prayer of just being with God. That really is Contemplative prayer, which is the highest form of prayer, but that’s so hard for people. It’s hard for us to sit and not say anything or just listen or just be.
I’m glad that you expressed the importance of that, but what I also got from you is that life has a tendency to move us in that, and as long as we are taking the time to pray, to be in the presence of God, He’s at work. He’s moving us through life stages, he’s working us, He’s constantly molding and shaping and forming us as we go through these different evolutions of our life.
Fr. Bob: Like that lady at my first parish that 90 some year-old lady who knew the Eucharist. Things like that are you’re right, wasting time with God. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately because a lot of us retired guys we get together and we say I just did it with some of my classmates when Fr. Jack Manning died and some other guys who were in the ministry but left in our class or guys who went through college with us. We were saying, you know, we’ve known each other for 62 years and we often hear from people, where did the year go? Where did the time fly? Can’t believe it’s Christmas already and on December 26, what are we going to see? Valentine cards out, then St. Patrick’s Day cards, then Easter cards, then Mother’s Day cards. I think marketing doesn’t want us to live in the present. They always want to move us to the future season and then we live our lives in segments.
Now you’ll see friends of yours. like I will, that I haven’t seen and say, “Hey, we have got to get together. Yes, let’s get together after the holidays.” That segment will be over and then the next segment begins, and you never get together it seems.
Taking time daily. So many are concerned about saying the right words in prayer and I think Jesus was distracted. Look how many times, I shouldn’t say how many times, there are a few times in scripture he’s praying on a mountain and what happens? His disciples sought Him out. The people, the crowds came to Him.
Fr. Michael: He did his best to go hide, to climb to the mountain, or go out to the sea. But I think it’s nice to hear and it’s assuring to hear that when people experience only distraction in their prayer that God is doing something in them.
Hearing you say that to people or direct that to people that first of all, you’re distracted in your prayer. I’m distracted in my prayer. There are distractions. But I think the mystical life, the saints would begin to call that some of the dark nights when you’re experiencing dryness, God is doing something beautiful in you. Yes, all we can do sometimes is just show up, just be there.
Fr. Bob: I don’t know if some people would agree, but sometimes I finish a prayer session of doing nothing with God and all I can say, and I do this, Lord, this prayer today, any fruition from it is going to have to come from You because I wasn’t with it.
We judge our prayer. That is again the worst thing we can do. Hear people say sometimes, I was guilty of this I think years ago, that was a good prayer today, or that prayer really sucked I fell asleep in it. Yeah. All I can do today is I don’t worry about our feelings in prayer.
You’ve seen this, I have, and we all have, whether we’re a priest or not. We’ve seen a couple, maybe our parents, grandparents, married 55, 60 years, and they can just sit there and do nothing. Not talk. I was always impressed with one of my aunts and uncles. My uncle and I would maybe be watching a ball game and my aunt all of a sudden would get up and bring in cup of coffee for my uncle Jack. And I thought to myself, how did she know he wanted coffee? But it’s they’re just being together and sharing life and presence to each other.
Fr. Michael: Well, thank you for your time today. It’s been great hearing your stories and getting to know you on this level. It’s really a privilege. I always like to ask the priest just to give people a final blessing. It could be very simple, but if you could just look towards the camera and bless our viewers.
Fr. Bob: Sure. Lord God, we come before you with all of our weaknesses and failings, but we also know of your redeeming grace in our life. And we praise you and thank you for the gift of life, the gift of being with us during the transitions of our life and may we always turn to you for your guidance and protection and awareness of your presence. So be with us. We give you grateful thanks, especially this time of the year for coming into our lives, coming into that messiness and showing you are a God of love and forgiveness. Bless these upcoming holidays and we ask your blessing upon all of us, our lives, our families, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Fr. Michael: Amen. Father Bob Kraig, thank you so much.
Fr. Bob: Thank you, Michael. Enjoy being with you.
Fr. Michael: You too.
